Neck Shim?

I bought a bass off of eBay a while back because I felt it would accompany the silimar one I already have. Well, it just doesn't have the same punch on the E and B strings. I've gone through a total set up twice now and I noticed that both times I've had to set the string height too high for my tastes to omit fret buzz - the saddles look like they're adjusted at too high of an angle. I also think the string height is increasing over time.

I wonder if adding a shim at the neck/body joint could fix this problem. Where do I place it? At the bridge side of the body pocket or the nut side? Any good pics out there to show me?

Aslo, my bass has a zero fret and it is notched a bit on the E and B strings. I do notice an improvement in the tone when I pluck the open stringsd while pressing on them at the zero fret. I need fret work but
I still think the bigger problem is keep my string height at a stable.

I think you should buy a back-scratcher especially designed for that purpose, rather than just using whatever you have lying around.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& item=2563627671

-Donna

Given our personal history, I can understand why you might be looking for that, but I intended no antagonism. You said that it was a time-saver for you to do it with straightedge and feeler, seems to me it's faster without the equipment. Like I said, suit yourself.

It doesn't take that much experience! Eyeball one bass that's been set-up to play the way you like it, go from there. But, I'll concede that there are plenty of people out there that should not be allowed to hold a truss-rod wrench even on their best day. They probably should just spring for the pro set-up and be content with that. I don't know -- I don't think there's anything spooky about truss rods, the way some people do, but on the other hand, I'd hate to encourage some total klutz to do it himself and have him twist the truss rod right out of the damned thing. All things considered, I'd rather encourage people to learn how to set up by eyeball and feel, because it works just fine that way and it isn't hard at all.

Nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying that it's not necessary to have a straightedge and feeler gauges to set up a bass, and if you want to use them, you sure don't have to go to Stew-Mac.

You know you have a high fret if you've got the bass set up properly, and you still get fret buzz at certain points on the neck. Why would you suspect a high fret unless it buzzes, and unless it buzzes, why would you care? Know what I mean?

But, anyway, that's an entirely different matter -- you don't use "mini" striaghtedges to check or set relief, and you've got to straighten the neck before you can find high frets. That's not part of a routine set-up in any event.

I think most players can detect very subtle changes in their action, me included, but the difference is that most of us don't care unless it's such a significant change that it affects playing. That happens twice a year for me.
slam?

Hell, no! I've just never used a straightedge to check relief, that's all!
Maybe I'm a heretic, but I use the old-time method, press down the string at the first and fifteenth or seventeenth fret (depending on how I felt that morning) and eyeball the relief at the eighth fret or so. If I don't like the way it looks, I will either cuss at it, or actually get the truss rod wrench out and torque it a little. Sometimes, I'll also say a chant, apply magnets, or read tea leaves. Some days are better than others, Pete.

Well, I'm fairly happy, but I've got this itch right between my shoulder blades that I can't reach, could you get that for me?

I bet you could if you had a straight edge.

As usual, I see both sides as valid, owing both wood and carbon necks, as well as being anal, yet... still a bit of a punk. My story is such:

I once awoke the morning of a gig, with my strings laying on the neck.
TOTAL panic ensued. NO tech will jump and a set-up THAT quickly, for a young punk. I jacked up the saddles, and did the gig. Not knowing nothin' for nothin'.

Later, as a poor young man, I lived somewhere where the only tech on the (rather large island) was a guitarist. Having no faith in that, I started experimenting. A few years later, I ended up in a town with a
REAL tech/luthier, and asked REALLY NICELY, after throwing him some money for the first set-up/fret dressing, what some of the secrets were. He had plenty of business, several months out, so he was amiable to answer my questions. Combined with that, I was reading a bass magazine regularly, so I had some ideas of what to look for. I went and bought all the gear. Straight edge, tuner, feeler gauges, capo, allen wrenches (all over a few paychecks mind you). Eventually, I figured it all out, and no longer need the gear to do a set-up, HOWEVER, I don't regret having the straight edge and such. I've used the stuff in a endless number of other things, from measuring peg head holes (calipers), to simply having things handy, to make a new bass, have identical action to an old bass (quickly). Once in the ball park, I go by feel. After the initial set-up, it's all by feel. I appreciate having the 64th's in. ruler available to confirm some suspicions.

As a personal tip: Don't overlook the back way `round. Look for other ways to measure. A set of drill bits once confirmed a pick-up was too far from the strings.

I USED to be mechanically gifted, but It's still nice to have the confirmation in a pinch.

Like Peter, I find I'm adjusting my Pedulla every other month, but like
Brian, I don't need to measure it (normally).

Enjoy all!
Hope the new folks find some help in this.

I used to have a back-scratcher around here, and she was pretty good at dictation and filing, too -- but she never, ever was lying around. I've got to get another one of those.

I have had many problems with the old 60's-70's guitars and basses that had a zero fret.
Both with intonation and string height.

As for shimming...
I have a 1965 Fender Malibu acoustic that has a bolt on neck much like that of a telecaster.
I shim the neck to adjust the action.
This is easy to do.

Use what ever you like for a shim and, after removing the neck, put it close to where the neck meets the body and replace the neck and strings.
You have to do this by trial and error till by adding or removing shims till you get it the way you like it.

Isn't a "feeler gauge" a better option here? It would help find the right spot while eye-balling the itchy area in the mirror.

What happens in the time period that you don't yet have this experience?

Setting 0.004" with feeler gauges can be

I didn't say that I set .004" or .001". I have a setting which works for me.
That setting happens to be .014-.016". I use a .016" feeler gauge, and when it slips under the straight edge at the 7th fret and is a bit "grabby" then that is good for me. Hey! I like to be precise, and being used to instruments where I don't have to worry about relief, I like the "security" of knowing that I dialed in the relief and used something concrete to measure it. I don't have the hangups about Stew-Mac or using a straight edge, and since I am "experienced" at doing the routine, it probably takes me as fast or quicker to get a CONSISTENT relief setting on my basses.

Besides, many pro luthiers/repair folks use a straight edge/feeler guages.
If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me! :^) Also, without the mini straight edges, how do you know if you have a high fret?

Just one.

I was under the impression that they

They don't, and you can't anyway.

You've got over ten non-Zons now,

No, over 10 basses. 5 Fenders (2 active, 3 passive), one MTD535, and one
G&L. I have 6 Zons.

As you said, they move around quite a bit, more than 2x per year. I am what some call a "sophisticated" player (read anal) and I can sense very subtle relief changes. I adjust mine a lot more than 2x per year, and I can validate that they DO move around lots. Especially right now in NY where it is fluctuating temp/humidity where sometimes I have to run an AC and sometimes the heater.

I am not sure where you are going with that one. Is this some sort of slam?
You have your way, I have mine. As long as you are happy, that is fine by me!

Not necessary, but more precise, and no guess work. When you have 10+ basses, I don't have time to do everything by "feel."

Your string height is probably changing due to the current seasonal change.
Check to insure that your neck relief is set properly, for starters, somewhere between .014"-.018" inch. In order to do this accurately, you need a straight edge and feeler gauges. You can get them at http://www.stewmac.com

Once you have your relief dialed in, then you can isolate any other problems. The only way your strings feel higher over time is by neck movement, and in fall winter, necks become more bowed due to less humidity, and in summer, they get straighter due to more humidity.

Anwering your question directly though, yes, a shim can serve to make it so that you can lower the bridge saddles. However, I would fix the relief issue first.

If it were my bass, I'd fix the fret problem first.

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

If you want to measure your relief to thousandths, then sure, you need a straightedge and feeler gauges. But it's not necessary to measure to thousandths to set neck relief. I do it by eyeball, it works fine to use a couple of capoes and feeler gauges (or a business card, if you don't have feeler gauges).

Plus, if you really feel the need to measure to thousandths (which is an exercise in utter futility, because your neck will vary more than a couple of thousandths each day due to humidity and/or temperature changes, or the angle at which you hold the bass), you can do it with metal straightedges available at any hardware store, and feeler gauges available at any auto parts store. No need to pay Stew-Mac's imaginative prices.

Another thought on this....
The bass could be a hollow body model.
In time the body may bulge out where the bridge is bolted on.
This will raise the action considerably.
If this is the case you don't have much choice but to shim the neck unless you want to add new bracing.

Most folks would find it faster to do this by eyeball, once you have enough experience doing it to be able to. Setting 0.004" with feeler gauges can be pretty tedious, and besides, I bet you can't adjust your truss rod finely enough to make a 0.001" difference in relief, anyway. But, suit yourself.

Plus, did you get rid of your Zons? I was under the impression that they don't require neck relief adjustments. You've got over ten non-Zons now, that require frequent adjustment? Okey-dokey. My basses require a ten-second tweak of the truss rod, twice a year, when the seasons change.
Total number of times in my life that I have set up a bass's neck relief with a straightedge and a feeler gauge: Zero.

You need to set your neck relief before you anything, Dave. There are articles at AGB FAQs on set-up, check them out.

If your relief is correct, and you get fret buzz even when the action's too high, then you have uneven frets. Probably best to let a pro file your frets for you, in that case.

Shimming a neck to alter the neck-to-body angle is not a good idea, in my opinion. To do it, you necessarily have to reduce the contact are between the neck and body, unless you can produce a very precisely-tapered shim that maintains full contact. Any reduction in contact will reduce the solidity of the joint. When I have shimmed necks, it's been a flat shim, used to raise the neck level in relation to the body, not to change the neck angle.
I've had to do this on fretless conversions, where removing the frets lowers the fingerboard level to the point where you cannot lower the saddles enough to compensate, so the neck has to be raised. In 99.9% of the cases, if you feel you need to shim the neck to get the action right, it means there's grossly excessive neck relief. Especially because you say the problem is increasing, I think you have too much relief. In the fall, humidity levels drop, and wood necks will bow -- you need to give your truss rod a tightening. Read those FAQs and report back.

Then she had to cut her fingernails to play bass, thus permanently ruining her?

-Donna, still in mourning for real nails

Me, too. That's why we're here.