Do all tube amps sound like this? Help!!

I don't have a clip to post, but let me try to explain in words...

I have been playing solid state for around 15 years. It was all I knew til recently. My new setup is

Hafler Triple Giant Tube Preamp
VHT 2/50/2 Tube Poweramp
Genz Benz 2x12 cab

I also have a Carvin Quad X Tube Preamp.

Here is the thing. Whenever I switch to neck humbucker (on my Carvin DC127 or my Ibanez 540S), it sounds, to my ears, aweful. I don't know if this is because my ears are so used to solid state. In any case, on the low E (and A to lesser extent and D to still a lesser extent), the notes sound so rubbery. There is no definition. It sounds like the note is enveloped by this loose, bassy, boominess. Both the Carvin and Triple Giant exhibit this (happens with both guitars). Even if I turn down the bass all the way on the preamps (as well as the depth on the poweramp) I hear it. I confirmed that it is not the cabinet (i.e. if I run the Triple Giant to a cab simulator I hear the same thing).

Is this simply a quality of tube amps? Does it have to do with volume? I am dying here. And if I back off on the gain it sounds even worse. Can some of you post clips? Just play the following slowly (with neck humbucker), so I can hear the notes ringing. Do it at very high gain as well as pretty high gain. I appreciate it greatly! I will post mine later.

e------------------------------------- b------------------------------------ g------------------------------------- d-------------------------------------- a------------12-14-16-14-12--------- e-12-14-16-------------------16-14-12-

thanks,

brian www.guitar-dreams.com

...

You have too much bass before your distortion stage... get an
EQ pedal and make a frowny face.

You've found what I don't like about rack systems... it's not a 'system', it's a bunch of components put together. Have you ever played a good classic tube amp? It'll wake you up.

My guitars are set up similarly. I'd suggest that he lower the bass side of the pickup as much as possible. Perhaps the entire pickup, but at least the bass side.

I'll note that it also helps if you swap out your tone cap for something that passes more mids (place the pass frequency higher, so only the higher frequencies shunt to ground, leaving more mids).

Good point, especially if this is the Genz Benz tuned port cab. This cab is
TUNED to reproduce more bottom!

Excellent points that Scott beat me to.

I own both a traditional Marshall 2204 JMP and a rack system (with several preamps). Tube choice can make a real difference. Rack systems tend to be
"easier to make sound bad, and harder to make sound good" than a head (although some heads like the Dual Rectifier are also easy to make sound bad). You need to play with gain and tone controls until you get what you want.

I always swap out tubes to find the tone that I like. I tend to prefer Mullard preamp tubes, because they don't sound farty, they tend to have an extra mids presence, and they tend to break up smoother (less buzzy).

I believe he's using the tuned cab. If so, I wouldn't mess with stuffing, egg crate, or anything like that.

In addition to the excellent advice offered by
Scott and Jim, I'd add one thing about setting up your pickups. Start by getting them even in terms of volume.

I start with the bridge pickup. I set it for height first, trying to get the best tone and signal out of it. Then I lower the end bass end until the strings are roughly the same volume. Then I adjust pole pieces to trim the individual strings.

Then, I adjust the neck pickup so that it's about the same volume (I like them pretty equal in the mix when I'm using both). Then I do the end adjustments and pole adjustments, then check for inter-pickup balance again.

This only takes a few minutes, and you don't have to do it again, if you stick with the same string gauge and manufacturer (maybe even if you don't).

On a three pickup guitar, obviously you have to adjust all three pickups to taste.

I used to run my pickups as high as I could, for the hottest signal. My tone was never quite right, and the guitar lost some sustain. Then
I realized the magnets were damping the strings.
Ouch! So don't crank those pickups all the way up. Start high, move down through the cool sounds until you are becoming unhappy, then move back up a bit.

Yeah - it does sound like too much pre gain low end. I will definately see what I can do. The thing is, plenty of people get great results with rack setups. I already spent the cash on a VHT 2/50/2 so I am committed to sticking with rack.

The neck pickup on many guitars, both humbucker and single coil, will be stronger and louder (to your ears) than the neck pickup.

In my Les Paul Classic, I lowered the neck pickup (yes, lowered) so that its about level with the plastic surround. You'll still have to make adjustments with your guitar volume and tone controls, verses using the bridge pickup, but not as much.

Setting up your amp to have more treble than you need (yep - intentionally setting up your EQ to give you more treble than what you will use) will impart a bite and higher end to your neck pickup, so that it is more distinct and not as muddy as well. In my opinion, you can get close to early Clapton and other guitarists who played off the neck pickup with both amp EQ and (at times) a pedal.

With more treble in your tone and sound, you then learn to make adjustments with your guitar volume control. When selecting the bridge pickup, you may find that you want to roll off the bridge pickup tone control some. You may find that you actually like the some of that increased treble for doing chords and rhythm work, as it tends to help the note structure punch more and bite more.

When you increase amp volume, you also boost the lower frequencies, so you may need to compensate and lower the bass tone control. For example, at stage volume I've got my Super Lead bass tone control at about "3" (varies with room and stage size).

Getting your 2 x 12 cab off the floor will tighten up the low frequencies as well. At the very least get the front edge off the floor. Lots of us put the 2 x 12 cab on an amp stand, or on a chair, so that it can hit you about waist high, and interact with your guitar for (good and controllable)
feedback and increased sustain.

In tube amps, trying different brands of power and pre-amp tubes will certainly affect tone and your sound. Some tubes will impart a crispness and tightness; others won't. When changing power tubes, many amps require that you have the amp biased - an amp tech can help you there.

If you do a google search on my name (Scott Colborn), you should turn up posts about "tweaking the speaker cab." There are things you can do to the speaker cab to help tighten up the low end, and tighten up the whole note structure, and, get more sound coming out the front of the cab.

Everything in your signal chain will have some effect on the tone and sound that you are seeking. Analyze each component; understand what it does and how it interacts with the other components. Dial things in using your ears (at stage volume) and you might be surprised at your settings - trust your ears and experiment.

All the best and good luck with your music and joy.
Walk in Beauty, Peace. Scott